The Second Saturn Return

the question
I have a question about my Saturn return.
Saturn was in Scorpio 07°Sc29' when I was born.
It looks like the dates that this return happens or happened have been as follows:
December 8, 2012
May 10, 2013
September 4, 2013
However, Saturn doesn't leave Scorpio until December 23, 2014.
Then it goes back into Scorpio June 16, 2015 and doesn't leave until September 17, 2015.
Some places I have read that the Saturn return is over once it leaves the place it was when you were born, in my case after September 4.
However other places say that it doesn't end until Saturn leaves the sign which would be September 17, 2015.
Which is correct?

kristo’s answer
For the record, the woman who asked this question was born in 1954, and is therefore experiencing her second Saturn Return.

The short answer to this questions is: Congratulations! It’s all over as of October 4th.
And the reason I say October 4th instead of September 4th is that it takes that long for this Saturn to leave the 3 degree orb I tend to use for Conjunctions.

The long answer, of course, is, well...longer.

Astrologers each have their own definition of Conjunctions and the corresponding orbs they consider relevant.
The horseshoes and hand grenades type prefer much wider orbs, and sometimes even what our querent suggests, namely: Conjunction by virtue of Sign.
For these astrologers, a Conjunction begins and ends when a planet enters a sign, and so, if Saturn returns to Scorpio, even for a few months in 2015, and if it does nothing more than dip its toes back in a few degrees off the cusp of be it.
That particular time will be VERY significant for those born with Saturn on the cusp of Sagittarius, of course, but that’s really another question altogether.

I prefer my orbs to be much tighter, and 3 degrees is about it for me, unless we’re speaking of Quintiles and BiQuintiles, in which case I prefer a nice slim 1 degree orb.
That’s because I learned my astrology from Steve Forrest.
Not only do I like and prefer his style of teaching, but I liked what he had to say about orbs, which is pretty much that the wider the orb, the less intense the effect.

Whose to say what a correct orb is?
That’s who.

But what if you’re not an astrologer?
Well, in that case, you’re going to have to decide whose astrology and whose “authority” makes the most sense to you...because that’s what we’re really talking about here.

As far as I’m concerned, the only Authority you can count on in this life is your own Intuition.
And becoming the Authority of your own life requires it.
And it’s either that or remain a follower all your life.
Because, you see, THAT is what a Saturn Return is all about in the first place.

Whatever you may have read about Saturn’s Return, and whatever you may believe it to signify, my own Intuition tells me that it’s all about transforming experience into wisdom.

I read something recently about middle age being defined as beginning at 53 instead of 40-something.
Funny that it should so closely correspond to the Second Saturn Return.
In fact, if the average Return happens at about age 59, doesn’t that tell us that the societal concept of “middle age” is really an intuition about this same Saturn Return business?

Age 59 gives us plenty of time to accumulate experience, doesn’t it?
But what good is experience if we don’t do something useful, important and wise with it?
To my mind, that’s the very definition of Wisdom:
Experience transformed.

Senility vs. Senescence
How often have you observed people acting cranky, stuck, conservative, belligerent and negative?
How often did you hear the word “No!” from them, knowing full well that their “No” was based on a flawed view of their own experience?
How it was based on their own failures, an unmistakable envy of youth, and the terrible weight of unresolved grief over their own lost opportunities.
Well, for me, that’s the very definition of senility.

A wise elder—a Senex—is someone who knows the ropes.
A wise elder has learned from their mistakes.
A wise elder knows that everyone has to make their own mistakes, but doesn’t assume that something very successful can’t happen when others are given the opportunity to have experiences that they themselves failed at.
A wise elder knows when to say no and when to say yes.

However long it takes to at least start becoming wise.
THAT’s how long a Second Saturn Return should last.



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